Comments on Yachdus: Angelic - Payos, Peyot, Simanim, Peyes, Sidelocks,...

Yeah, I forget to add Simanim to the title.

2010-02-11T00:30:20.302+02:00

Yeah, I forget to add Simanim to the title.

B"H Teimanim (Yemenites) call them "sim...

2010-02-10T10:07:48.696+02:00

B"H

Teimanim (Yemenites) call them "simanim."

BTW, the image above is significant since its a Ch...

2010-02-05T07:04:25.220+02:00

BTW, the image above is significant since its a Chassidic (Satmar) boy of Yemenite origin. :)

I'm deferring to you here, since you're th...

2010-02-05T07:03:10.470+02:00

I'm deferring to you here, since you're the expert.

I does seem like a newer custom in Europe.

The Yemenite Semanim might come from the Gemara. I wasn't bringing the Gemara as proof, rather as support, since it is a possibility.

I have heard this pshat used in the past, (as pshat) although it might simply come from societal expectations. Its hard to be objective.

I'm not sure we can assume something is ancien...

2010-02-05T00:40:34.690+02:00

I'm not sure we can assume something is ancient when, at least in the case of Europe, we can see that it showed up kind of late. There are many depictions of European Jews throughout the centuries, created by Jews and non-Jews alike, and of all strata of Jewish society. In addition, there are written descriptions of what Jews looked like. I can't say when curled peyos first appear exactly, but I can say that they certainly do not appear in Europe earlier than 3 or 400 years. In addition, the Jews of Eastern Europe came from migrations from Western and Central Europe. True, in my post I showed even a German (and a maskil to boot) with them, but it surely was a more common practice in Eastern Europe, so it's difficult to point to them alongside Yemen as an example of a community maintaining its ancient minhagim undisturbed. Like you said, they look nice. In fact, my own grandfather recollected how as a child he had stick straight hair and was unable to get them to curl successfully, much to his chagrin. :)

As for Gittin 58, on my blog I thought you might be posting it tongue-in-cheek, but now I see that you weren't. Further, I also saw that R' Micha Berger on the Avoda list took your citation of the Gemara quite seriously. I wonder though why you assume it means peyos? Is that how any of the meforshim explain that Gemara?