Comments on Yachdus: Why Blog In DM Continues To Be Wrong

B"H And despite all that, many music lovers wi...

2010-02-28T16:32:57.708+02:00

B"H
And despite all that, many music lovers will still never pay a penny for a song. For better or worse new times defined what a song is worth to consumers of music, and that's free to $.99. Economics apply even to frum people.
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:43:00 PM
Economics describe how things generally work in the world. Torah describes how they should be...

Yanky Friedman, That yi'ush might likely make it ...

2010-02-25T07:09:56.350+02:00

Yanky Friedman,

That yi'ush might likely make it muttar to copy from a CD as well, since the producers know that its inevitable.

Anonymous (1),

True. Possibly the best way to combat it partially is to make it convenient and easy to download when paying, making it a value proposition.

Akiva,

Ditto. See what I answered anon1. But the discussion here was for these who are yera'im veshlaimim.

Anonymous 1,

True again. But like I said, not a good halachik response, like the next anon posits.

Jeff,

Most albums dont use this gimmick. But the reason cited above applies here as well. Even with this "trick", download would still be muttar.

>So can I also decide on my own the value of a car...

2010-02-25T03:13:43.609+02:00

>So can I also decide on my own the value of a car and then just break into dealership and take it and leave a 20 dollar bill on the counter?

No, but if 8 gazillion people decide that cars are worth $20 then one of two things can happen: no more cars, or, somehow people figure out a way to make and sell them for $20.

It may not be nice, but it also wasn't nice when blacksmiths and whipmakers went out of business. You simply cannot guilt a critical mass of people into sustaining your obsolete business model. You may be right, but that won't sell your cds.

Yanky wrote the reason for the heter of ripping mu...

2010-02-25T03:01:48.297+02:00

Yanky wrote the reason for the heter of ripping music of the Internet is since wee dealing with yiush, I've heard once a different reason for the heter because it's not sold btnay or perpetually leased whatever u call it.

So can I also decide on my own the value of a car ...

2010-02-24T23:46:33.916+02:00

So can I also decide on my own the value of a car and then just break into dealership and take it and leave a 20 dollar bill on the counter?

I'm very curious what you do for a living and how you provide for you family. I'd like to see what you think if one day someone decides the value of your service can be determined by whatever dollar amount the customer decides and then we will see how you survive.

Shame.

Blog in Dm responded to my comment above. Since I ...

2010-02-24T22:43:48.011+02:00

Blog in Dm responded to my comment above. Since I can't comment there, here is my response:

>Actually, contemporary Jewish releases are available easily, attractively, and cheap, just like he asserts in his closing sentence.

I didn't say "easy." I said "easier." The reason why itunes worked is because a critical mass of people discovered that it was much easier for them spend $.99 a tune, $10 an album on itunes (which synced with their ipods) than it was to use Kazaa. This happened early enough that torrents weren't much of a factor yet. But while many people found that itunes was easy enough, comprehensive enough and cheap enough to justify paying for music again, countless others gravitated toward torrents and sharing software like soulseek. In other words, the market split. Instead of the situation as before, where most people downloaded for free, now a lot of people were willing to pay. But the recording industry still had to make do with selling less. That's just how it is.

If your contention is that mostlymusic.com or whatever is easier, cheaper and better than free downloads (why they decided that Jewish songs are worth $.50 more than the Rolling Stones is a great question; Apple established that $.99 is the reasonable price point) that clearly is not the case, or else there wouldn't be this mass downloading which we see. Itunes isn't cheap, easy and attractive because Apple says it is. It's cheap, easy and attractive because the customers say it is. And despite all that, many music lovers will still never pay a penny for a song. For better or worse new times defined what a song is worth to consumers of music, and that's free to $.99. Economics apply even to frum people.

Physical CD's are history. "Downloading" music, b...

2010-02-24T19:59:11.114+02:00

Physical CD's are history. "Downloading" music, buying digital music to download to your digital music player is simply the way not only is it going to be done, but is already being done in the non-Jewish world. In another few years purchased CD's will be as rare as buying cassettes nowadays (yes, it's still being sold in the Jewish world here and there).

So to say one form is ok and another isn't...the artists and the halacha is going to have to shift quickly with the technology.

I don't see how this can be divorced from the larg...

2010-02-24T17:42:36.641+02:00

I don't see how this can be divorced from the larger issue of how people get their music these days. There's not going to be special treatment for frum artists; appeals to halacha and so forth mirror the recording industry's righteous anger, but ultimately they had little legal recourse and had to work out alternate solutions. It just so happens that what you could do 10 years ago -- record and album, press a cd, and sell it and count your money -- isn't how you can do it now.

Let me give a moshol: many years ago a little boy was bullied. He counted the days until his graduation from 8th grade. He knew he'd be going to a different mesivta, and besides, it was much more yeshivish. The significance of that? Well, bullying is obviously assur. Surely all the be-hatted bochurim simply could not bully this boy, since they would be so frum. Turned out this boy was living in a dream world. The way to address bullying is not by appealing to halacha and frumkeit. Bullying is simply a reality, and it must be managed however such management can be accomplished. Same with downloading music. If kids are socialized to avoid turning lights on and off on shabbos from the time they're small children, they're not socialized not to download music. On the contrary, if anything they're socialized that it's perfectly fine, along with the rest of the world who downloads music and videos. Only some kind of itunes like solution (make it easier and attractive and cheap) can work, and frum artists will simply have to get used to it same as other artists.

A common psak that i am aware of, and some poskim ...

2010-02-24T11:44:27.220+02:00

A common psak that i am aware of, and some poskim say this or similar logic only privately - very few publicize they hold this), is that it is assur to copy a cd, but it is muttar to download from the internet. Once something is available o the internet, there is automatic yi'ush, and the item is hefker, like something that was thrown into the sea - even if it washes up later and is found, the owner gave up all hope knowing it was out to sea.